Interview: Aarn Tate from Aarn Design

Looking to the other side of the world for small manufacturers of innovative outdoor gear, Aarn Design from New Zealand popped up on my radar. A highly innovative backpack design, which lets you walk in an upright posture and eliminates body pain & discomfort is something many in the outdoors can benefit from. I hooked up with Aarn, founder of the Flow-Mo packs, and have him tell his story.



Aarn, please briefly introduce yourself and tell us who you are. Since when are you backpacking, and how did you start? How often are you out backpacking nowadays?

I started bushwalking as they call it in Australia in my teenage years. At university I learned to rock climb and did my first month-long trips in the SW Tasmania wilderness. At this time it was not opened up like it is now with access roads to dams etc. It is a very rugged area right in the path of the roaring forties with extremely dense bush ("horizontal scrub"). It is usually cold, wet and windy. We had supplies air dropped in to prearranged areas. Decades later one of my companions on these early trips disappeared without trace in the same region. After University I moved to NZ and did a years tramping and mountaineering. I fell in love with the NZ mountains and knew this would be my home. It was in NZ that I started to make my own gear and experiment with ideas.

Are you a UL backpacker? If so, what is your typical baseweight?

I try to be. It is not so easy in NZ as weather is extremely variable in the mountains and you can have 4 seasons in a day. But on short trips, the weather forecast is getting more reliable, so you can adjust your gear better for the expected weather. Typical baseweight around 8kg.

Aarn Design makes a very innovative backpack, which helps the carrier to be more balanced. Can you tell us a bit more about this innovative rucksack and how you developed it?

Once I started making my own gear I tried ideas current at that time. I really had no idea about biomechanics. As I used the gear I designed, I experimented with many different ideas. Some worked, many did not. Some showed promise, and I continued to work on these and refine them. The key areas I focused on were the fit - making all the body contact parts a mirror image of your body; the freedom of movement - allowing free body movement with the pack being completely stable; and the transmission of load to the body in a way that created the least strain on the body.

When I experimented with balancing the load around the center of gravity of the body, I found remarkable benefits. Less strain on the body, better balance and easier movement, and the load seemed to require less effort to carry. The front Balance Pockets as we call them now were given their first serious test on a 3 month N-S traverse of the central section of the southern Alps here in NZ in 1989. Later when I was living in the UK, Ray Lloyd did a brilliant year long research study at the Department of Leisure and Sports Science at Leeds Metropolitan University. He compared a backpack with our Bodypacks in the same conditions in the lab, and these subjective impressions of mine were completely confirmed by hard science. The most energy efficient and strain free way to carry a load is with an upright posture with minimal loading on the shoulders and with the load distributed evenly on the front and back of the hips. We call this a body centered load carrying, when we can get the center of gravity of the load to be very close to the center of gravity of the body. A deep understanding of biomechanics has resulted from this 4 decade focus on creating the ideal load carrying system, and now biomechanical principles are the starting point for any new design.

How did you start the company, and what do you foresee for the future?

I have designed outdoor equipment for a living for 35 years. For many years I was a freelance designer and did work for outdoor companies in NZ, Australia, UK, Japan, and USA. Over the years I have taken out around 10 patents on packs and tents. When I returned to NZ in 2000, after many years in Europe, I found design work was hard to find. My partner and I decided to take the plunge and start our own brand. While it has been a rapid learning curve learning how to run a business and not just design gear, it has been rewarding being able to introduce ideas and concepts onto the market which were too different for my previous clients. I knew that other companies were not prepared to take the risk of introducing a radical carrying system on the market- one that made their current backpack designs obsolete. I also knew that once we had successfully established Flow-Mo Bodypacks on the market, other companies would start to follow our biomechanically efficient ideas. Already we are seeing a big player, Black Diamond, copy our movement principles on their pack range.

We are at the stage now where we need expertise to take the company from a small niche player to larger company which can make the benefits of our body-centered load-carrying systems available to many more people.


Aarn's design studio.

Aarn, we love to be let in on the work-in-progress stuff! Can you let us know what kind of new products you're working on the moment?

At the request of professional photographers, we are introducing large volume Photo Balance Pockets suitable for large bodied SLR cameras like the Nikon D3.

We are refining the side connections between the Balance Pockets and the pack on our Marathon and Mountain Magic models so that they work well, even without the shoulder straps. i.e. we are creating a completely shoulder free load carrying system option. We are looking into the possibilities of using Cuben Fibre on some of the models in our Ultralite range.

For our Travelite range next year, we have a new Earth Glider hybrid travel pack with a wheel frame; the wheel frame is complete removable to give a 80L trekking pack weighing around 2kg. We have a carry bag, Pack Porter, for protecting your pack for airline travel. Add the wheel frame to this and you have probably the worlds lightest wheel-able travel luggage: 100L capacity at 1.75kg.

How works the R&D at Aarn Design, do you have a need yourself that you try to fix, or do some of your clients inspire you for new products and ask you for solutions to their problems?

Yes, all 3. Probably still the majority of needs for improvement come from my own use. I have this vision of equipment which works amazingly well. If anything is not working this well I start to think about how it can be improved. Often a potential area for improvement or a new idea arises during a long trip. There is lots of time to think about gear function when you are using the gear continuously for many days.

However, many suggestions and problems come from other users. We have a free tester program here in NZ where anybody can try out a pack before they buy, in return for filling out a detailed feedback form about their experience. We have hundreds of these forms and it gives us a good idea if there are any problem areas in a wide range of uses. What works well for me may not work for someone with a completely different body shape, or doing activities with a Bodypack on which I don't do. And then there is the ease of manufacturing to consider, so feedback from the factory is also important. Once a need or problem is identified, I let it mull around for a while until a possible solution comes up. Then it needs to be tried out by making a prototype or modifying a current model. I make the patterns and prototypes in the studio pictured. I like to test it first and then hand it out to our small team of outdoor enthusiasts who go into the wilderness at every available opportunity. Once our team is completely happy with it, we send a sample and patterns off to the factory for sampling. If a improvement works on one model, we try and upgrade the whole range.

Completely new products usually arise due to requests from current users. The first Photo Balance Pockets arose from a number of professional photographers using our standard Balance Pockets for their cameras. They wanted something more specifically designed for camera gear. After the first season on the market, we developed the second generation design by incorporating their needs for the pockets to be more flexible in their compartment set up. Then recently we have added a large version for the largest SLRs to be released next year.

The Marathon Magic series originated when one of NZs top adventure racers, Marcel Hagener, used one of our daypacks, Liquid Agility with Compact Balance pockets in the winning team of one of the World Raid series of adventure races. We worked together to come up with a design which satisfied his requirements. Most important was pack stability, freedom of movement, lightness and ability to access items while running, or access items when cycling with one hand. The frame also needed to flex from with the back from straight when running to curved when cycling. Each year these models have been on the market we have made refinements based ion feedback from many users.

What is the bestseller from Aarn Design, and where do your customer come from?

The answer to this question varies in different countries. In Australia and NZ we sell more of our large volume models, in Europe it is more of the daypacks. In those countries where we have been available the longest, people nearly always buy the full Bodypack (pack + Balance Pockets). In new markets people often buy the pack first, like how it works, and then buy the Balance Pockets.

Are you in touch with other cottage manufacturers in New Zealand, Europe, the USA, Japan or other places?

I try and keep up to date with what they produce, but do not know many of them personally.

What is your own favorite backpack, sleep system and shelter? Any other favourite piece of gear which you always carry with you?

I use all the packs in our range depending on the length and sort of trip. I try to refine the design of each model so I cannot pick a favourite!

For other gear I go for the lightest and biomechanically/ ergonomically efficient designs I can find.

The only product category where I have clear favourites are the recent advances are footwear, designed to mimic barefoot walking and running : Five Fingers for summer walking, Innov8 shoes on rough ground. Yes, these work with a load on! I still look for a better solution for glacier/snow work than the heavy boot. One kilo on the foot is uses equivalent to 6.4 kilos on the back, according to the latest research by the US army.

When and where was your last longer backpacking trip, and what was your baseweight? Are you planning to get out for a trip soon, and enjoy the summer season?

The last substantial trip was in Feb: an 8 day E-W crossing of the S Alps here in NZ, up the Rakaia R to Lauper Pass, up the Sale Glacier onto the Bracken Snowfield for 2 days, and descent down the Evans Glacier to the Wanganui R to the W coast. Base weight about 10 kg including climbing gear, helmet etc. Unusually we had a week of brilliant sunny and settled weather. Next summer is 6 months away here, but yes another long trip is being planned.


Aarn on the glacier.

Do you think ultralight backpacking will become more popular and break into the mass market, or will it continue to be something for a small group of people?

I think the Ultralite enthusiasts are raising the bar to what is possible, and this is forcing all manufacturers to give weight reduction a higher priority in the design process. This trend will continue: Reduced weights from main stream manufacturers, enthusiasts and cottage manufacturers developing lighter and lighter designs and using exotic new materials.

Aarn, I thank you for taking the time to answer my questions =)

18 Questions, comments, observations:

  1. Idea of carrying small bag in front of you is something that most of the hikers with (d)SLR have been doing for quite while, but I guess the fact that they have two vertical pockets instead of one horizontal bag is their contribution on making it better than older solutions.
    One of the challenges that I've found on having one horizontal bag (LowePro Toploader Zoom 2, LowePro Topload 75AW and/or Ortlieb Aqua Cam L) hanging between shoulder straps on chest height is that it limits visibility to my feet.
    I wonder if this is of having two vertical pockets instead of one horizontal bag is the key thing that makes the difference.

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  2. Another very interesting interview. Thanks

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  3. As you know Hendrik, I am a user of Aarn packs so for me it was great to be able to read a little more about the person behind the name. I agree that they do help you balance better and place less pressure on your lower back. I have found the Mountain Marathon and Magic to be very comfortable packs not only from the front balance pockets but also the way that the back pack frame hugs my back whilst providing ample ventilation. I am very interested in Aarn's comment that "We are refining the side connections between the Balance Pockets and the pack on our Marathon and Mountain Magic models so that they work well, even without the shoulder straps. i.e. we are creating a completely shoulder free load carrying system option. " as well as the mention of Cuben fabric.

    Thanks for once again bringing an excellent interview to the public.

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  4. BTW. AARN make also some nice shelters. 1.65 kg for a two person 4-season tent is not to bad http://www.backpackinglight.com.au/prod25.htm

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  5. The key differences between a front pocket such as a camera pouch and our Balance Pockets are:

    1. The gap between the 2 pockets allows you to see your feet as you walk. So they can be used on rough ground with enhanced balance.

    2. None of the weight in the Balance Pockets goes onto the shoulders - it all goes onto the front of the hipbelt, balancing the load on the back of the hipbelt from the pack. The Pockets connect to the shoulder straps via a free sliding connection to make this possible.

    3. The Balance Pocket connections to the hipbelt and the shoulder straps work in harmony with the Flow-motion systems of the pack, allowing free movement with stability.

    4. The Balance Pockets on all but the Marathon Magic packs do not touch your body. The frame in the Pockets can be custom bent to create an air gap between the Pockets and your tummy and chest. Next season we will add thicker matrix mesh to the back of the Balance Pockets on the Marathon Magics to increase the airflow.

    Aarn

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  6. This is amazing! I had no idea packs like this were even out there, but they make so much sense. I really want to try one out now. The camera pockets they have developed seems like a real selling point.

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  7. Still thinking about these guys. Do you know if the camera packs accommodate a slr with the lens already attached? Seems like it would be inconvenient otherwise.

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  8. Addy,

    Don't know what's your camera.
    My Canon 5d Mk II with ef 24-105 L attached fits well in the photo balance pockets. I can even leave the hood. However you must leave the grip otherwise it won't fit (aarn will release bigger photo balance pockets in 2011 I believe).

    On the pack itself, I own the Guiding light and carry up to 18-19 kg. It's a nice pack, no pain in the back and shoulders at the end of the day.
    Hope this helps

    ReplyDelete
  9. One more word about the balance pockets.
    Previously I used to carry my DSLR in a topload bag with a chest harness. Well that was handy, but I could not see my feet, and there was a lot of strain on the shoulders.
    With the balance pockets, I can see my feet and the weight is on the hips not the shoulders. That's a huge difference! I was trekking 10 days in greece in august and I can tell the whole system, pack and balance pockets, really works.

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  10. A question for Aarn:

    Have you reviewed the affect on the moment of inertial of your packing system and where items are to be carried? A lower moment of inertia allows us to be more nimble.

    For example, water bottles carried in the side pockets results in a significant increase in the moment of inertia, regardless of the affect on the CG. A much better location is on the shoulder straps.

    ReplyDelete
  11. We always recommend that water, your most compact and heavy item- and the one you need most often, be carried in the front Balance Pockets. If it is close to your tummy, it will cause the least increase in the moment of inertia. If you put it in the mesh pockets at the front of the Balance Pockets, further away from your body, it will increase the moment of inertia.

    Depending on your activity, there may be more movement in your hips or shoulders. If there is more movement at the shoulder level, water would be best carried at tummy level to minimise the moment of inertia. For example on a trip last weekend in the heavily forested and extremely steep climb up to the snowline on the western edge of the Southern Alps here in NZ, we were continually pulling ourselves up using tree roots and stems. So shoulder movement was maximum. If running on flat ground shoulder movement would be reduced. When running or descending downhill and when climbing steeply, hip movement is greatest. We find that the best position for water overall to minimize inertia is in front between the hips and the shoulders. By attaching the Balance Pockets to the hipbelt at the bottom, and to the shoulder straps at the top, we avoid the maximum movements of the shoulders and hips in different activities. Also because the connection of the Balance Pockets to the shoulder straps is a sliding connection, it does not restrict movement. Also very important, is that this sliding connection allows all the weight in the Balance Pockets to go onto the front of the hipbelt. No weight is carried on the shoulders from the front Balance Pockets, unlike water bottles mounted on the shoulder straps.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Yes this has been considered and is discussed on our website, www.aarnpacks.com. in the movement section. Considering the moment of inertia becomes increasingly important as our speed increases and the country gets rougher. So while not very important when backpacking along a trail, it will significantly effect performance when adventure racing in mountainous terrain.

    If you can pack to achieve a body-centered load where the center of gravity of the load matches the center of gravity of the body, the load is balanced around your movement center, and you have the basis for the greatest nimbleness. If the load in the front and back has the heaviest items as close to the body and as low as possible, then the moment of inertia is also minimal- and nimbleness will be the maximum possible.

    To do this, you need to use relatively large Balance Pockets in comparison to the pack volume, pack your heaviest most compact items in the front pockets and lighter bulky gear in the pack. This brings the center of gravity of the load very close to the center of body of the body in the vertical plane. To bring the center of gravity of the load close to the center of gravity of the body in the horizontal plane, you also need to pack the heavier items lower than is recommended for a traditional pack. So instead of packing the sleeping bag at the bottom of your pack, it would be better to pack it at the top. This sort of packing precision is not normally important unless you are moving fast in rough country. Other criteria, like ease of access to clothing or wet weather gear, are usually more important.

    We always recommend that water, your most compact and heavy item- and the one you need most often, be carried in the front Balance Pockets. If it is close to your tummy, it will cause the least increase in the moment of inertia. If you put it in the mesh pockets at the front of the Balance Pockets, further away from your body, it will increase the moment of inertia.

    Depending on your activity, there may be more movement in your hips or shoulders. If there is more movement at the shoulder level, water would be best carried at tummy level to minimise the moment of inertia. For example on a trip last weekend in the heavily forested and extremely steep climb up to the snowline on the western edge of the Southern Alps here in NZ, we were continually pulling ourselves up using tree roots and stems. So shoulder movement was maximum. If running on flat ground shoulder movement would be reduced. When running or descending downhill and when climbing steeply, hip movement is greatest. We find that the best position for water overall to minimize inertia is in front between the hips and the shoulders. By attaching the Balance Pockets to the hipbelt at the bottom, and to the shoulder straps at the top, we avoid the maximum movements of the shoulders and hips in different activities. Also because the connection of the Balance Pockets to the shoulder straps is a sliding connection, it does not restrict movement. Also very important, is that this sliding connection allows all the weight in the Balance Pockets to go onto the front of the hipbelt. No weight is carried on the shoulders from the front Balance Pockets, unlike water bottles mounted on the shoulder straps.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Yes this has been considered and is discussed on our website, www.aarnpacks.com. in the movement section. Considering the moment of inertia becomes increasingly important as our speed increases and the country gets rougher. So while not very important when backpacking along a trail, it will significantly effect performance when adventure racing in mountainous terrain.

    If you can pack to achieve a body-centered load where the center of gravity of the load matches the center of gravity of the body, the load is balanced around your movement center, and you have the basis for the greatest nimbleness. If the load in the front and back has the heaviest items as close to the body and as low as possible, then the moment of inertia is also minimal- and nimbleness will be the maximum possible.

    To do this, you need to use relatively large Balance Pockets in comparison to the pack volume, pack your heaviest most compact items in the front pockets and lighter bulky gear in the pack. This brings the center of gravity of the load very close to the center of body of the body in the vertical plane. To bring the center of gravity of the load close to the center of gravity of the body in the horizontal plane, you also need to pack the heavier items lower than is recommended for a traditional pack. So instead of packing the sleeping bag at the bottom of your pack, it would be better to pack it at the top. This sort of packing precision is not normally important unless you are moving fast in rough country. Other criteria, like ease of access to clothing or wet weather gear, are usually more important.

    We always recommend that water, your most compact and heavy item- and the one you need most often, be carried in the front Balance Pockets. If it is close to your tummy, it will cause the least increase in the moment of inertia. If you put it in the mesh pockets at the front of the Balance Pockets, further away from your body, it will increase the moment of inertia.

    Depending on your activity, there may be more movement in your hips or shoulders. If there is more movement at the shoulder level, water would be best carried at tummy level to minimise the moment of inertia. For example on a trip last weekend in the heavily forested and extremely steep climb up to the snowline on the western edge of the Southern Alps here in NZ, we were continually pulling ourselves up using tree roots and stems. So shoulder movement was maximum. If running on flat ground shoulder movement would be reduced. When running or descending downhill and when climbing steeply, hip movement is greatest. We find that the best position for water overall to minimize inertia is in front between the hips and the shoulders. By attaching the Balance Pockets to the hipbelt at the bottom, and to the shoulder straps at the top, we avoid the maximum movements of the shoulders and hips in different activities. Also because the connection of the Balance Pockets to the shoulder straps is a sliding connection, it does not restrict movement. Also very important, is that this sliding connection allows all the weight in the Balance Pockets to go onto the front of the hipbelt. No weight is carried on the shoulders from the front Balance Pockets, unlike water bottles mounted on the shoulder straps.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Addy,

    Don't know what's your camera.
    My Canon 5d Mk II with ef 24-105 L attached fits well in the photo balance pockets. I can even leave the hood. However you must leave the grip otherwise it won't fit (aarn will release bigger photo balance pockets in 2011 I believe).

    On the pack itself, I own the Guiding light and carry up to 18-19 kg. It's a nice pack, no pain in the back and shoulders at the end of the day.
    Hope this helps

    ReplyDelete
  15. The key differences between a front pocket such as a camera pouch and our Balance Pockets are:

    1. The gap between the 2 pockets allows you to see your feet as you walk. So they can be used on rough ground with enhanced balance.

    2. None of the weight in the Balance Pockets goes onto the shoulders - it all goes onto the front of the hipbelt, balancing the load on the back of the hipbelt from the pack. The Pockets connect to the shoulder straps via a free sliding connection to make this possible.

    3. The Balance Pocket connections to the hipbelt and the shoulder straps work in harmony with the Flow-motion systems of the pack, allowing free movement with stability.

    4. The Balance Pockets on all but the Marathon Magic packs do not touch your body. The frame in the Pockets can be custom bent to create an air gap between the Pockets and your tummy and chest. Next season we will add thicker matrix mesh to the back of the Balance Pockets on the Marathon Magics to increase the airflow.

    Aarn

    ReplyDelete
  16. We always recommend that water, your most compact and heavy item- and the one you need most often, be carried in the front Balance Pockets. If it is close to your tummy, it will cause the least increase in the moment of inertia. If you put it in the mesh pockets at the front of the Balance Pockets, further away from your body, it will increase the moment of inertia.

    Depending on your activity, there may be more movement in your hips or shoulders. If there is more movement at the shoulder level, water would be best carried at tummy level to minimise the moment of inertia. For example on a trip last weekend in the heavily forested and extremely steep climb up to the snowline on the western edge of the Southern Alps here in NZ, we were continually pulling ourselves up using tree roots and stems. So shoulder movement was maximum. If running on flat ground shoulder movement would be reduced. When running or descending downhill and when climbing steeply, hip movement is greatest. We find that the best position for water overall to minimize inertia is in front between the hips and the shoulders. By attaching the Balance Pockets to the hipbelt at the bottom, and to the shoulder straps at the top, we avoid the maximum movements of the shoulders and hips in different activities. Also because the connection of the Balance Pockets to the shoulder straps is a sliding connection, it does not restrict movement. Also very important, is that this sliding connection allows all the weight in the Balance Pockets to go onto the front of the hipbelt. No weight is carried on the shoulders from the front Balance Pockets, unlike water bottles mounted on the shoulder straps.

    ReplyDelete
  17. A question for Aarn:

    Have you reviewed the affect on the moment of inertial of your packing system and where items are to be carried? A lower moment of inertia allows us to be more nimble.

    For example, water bottles carried in the side pockets results in a significant increase in the moment of inertia, regardless of the affect on the CG. A much better location is on the shoulder straps.

    ReplyDelete
  18. There's more to it than just attaching something to the straps at the front. The weight is placed on the waist buckle, and draws the preasure that the belt exerts on the body forward to allow the person to stand up normally, as their centre of gravity is again at the centre - unlike conventional packs that draw your COG backwards. The pack also places very little weight on the shoulders - no aches at the end of the day. You can easily bend down and tie your shoelaces and the pack moves for you to do that. It's hard to describe. You should check out the video on their hompage

    ReplyDelete